The Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum-My ultimate Martin (2024)

Hi everyone, I've been popping in here for the occasional lurk for years. My story is that I'm a very casual player living in Australia and I'm slowly getting closer to my long-held dream of owning a Martin guitar. Certain things are cast in stone: it will be a Martin dreadnought and it will be a D-28 or higher. I came really close a year or two ago, but it never happened. Now the necessary planets are aligning again etc...

I know most on this forum would disagree with me, but I really don't want to own more than one. If I was a gigging muso I'd understand wanting a half-decent 'beater' to drag around, but I simply don't play enough to choose between multiple nice guitars. I'm essentially monoguitous.

I have a milestone birthday coming up in a couple of years and Mrs Brewer has suggested she'll chip in. I had been considering a birth-year 28 for the romance of it but I think I've shaken off the idea. 72 wasn't necessarily a great year, and living in Australia doesn't give me exposure to many to choose between - we'd probably have to buy from overseas and I suspect the hassle and potential for disappointment outweighs the romance factor. I also suspect that if I was the 'custodian' of a vintage guitar I'd feel less comfortable subjecting it to the kinds of indignities it will need to endure - camping trips, drunken mates etc. This guitar is to be 'enjoyed' and that comes with certain risks of life scars. I also like the idea of modern plug-and-play electronics for those odd occasions we want to have an amplified jam or record something, and the idea of an on-board tuner seems like a stroke of genius to me.

So anyway, I think I have a new plan, and I know it'll freak out some of the members here but here it is.

I think I'll get myself a DC-16GTE really soon. I can just about afford one now, the exchange rates are good and I really like the Fishman Premium Blend onboard electronics. I'll play it for a couple of years and work out how important the cutaway is to me (I don't play high at the moment, but I've never had a cutaway. It's a chicken-and-egg thing). I'll also find out how well my fat fingers get along with a 1,11/16" nut (my current guitar is a Yamaha 12-string that alternates between having 12 and 6 strings).

Then, in a couple of years' time, I'll get 'My Ultimate Martin'. If I decide the cutaway is important, I'll get a DC-28E. If I can live without the cutaway, and/or nut width is an issue, I'll get something else, maybe even an HD-something-V. Basically, whatever appeals to me and is within our combined budget when we go looking.

But here's the kicker. Assuming I enjoy the premium blend electronics (and on-board tuner) as much as I think I will, I will transplant it to the new guitar and probably sell the 16. This could potentially mean cutting a hole in the side of quite a serious guitar to install a plastic box, but it doesn't bother me as much as it probably should. I've been thinking about this for a while now, and I'm at peace with it. It'll be my guitar, and I'll do it for my own pleasure rather than anybody else's. I'd never do it to a vintage guitar of course, but a new or recent used one? I'm surprisingly OK with it. My biggest worry would be the electronics failing in a decade or two and there being nothing available to replace them with - but I'm sure I could get them repaired or even pick up an old beater on eBay to donate its box. I could even buy a brand new system now and keep it in mothballs as insurance.

Anyhow, I just felt a need to share my recent hand-wringing with the fine Martin lovers here, I know this is controversial stuff, but do I have any supporters or am I out there on the fringe?!

Why not just do something like this and be done?

http://www.martinguitar.c...tars.php?p=w&m=DCPA1

No part of your plan really bugs me except transferring electronics. You're not going to get anything for your guitar without them, and you can easily buy new electronics and have them added to a new guitar. And I think you can do a pickup with an external preamp so you don't have to install a plastic box.

The guitar link above is probably all the guitar you'd ever need though.

"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that." - Steve Earle.

"I've met Bob Dylan and his bodyguards, and I don't think Steve could get anywhere near his coffee table." - Townes Van Zandt.

"Steve Earle now lives in Bob Dylan's old apartment. I wonder if he ever hops up on the coffee table..." - Me.

Hi Brewer i'm in Oz as well, and i think you'll be on the fringe here on this one for sure mate. If you are getting a martin for acoustic tone which is why I have them then i'd just fit a K&K or simlar pick up and run it through a good preamp/DI. I'd look for the best purely acoustic Martin you can on the basis you'll enjoy the tonerather than as a plugged in instrument - if you need that and $$ a scarce get a cheaper Maton as well - you don't buy em for the unplugged tone though !

I wouldn't gut the 16 and sell it no one will buy it - a big loser on that one i think and electronics are always changing.

See the recent review of the performance series they could be the answer as Robert Earl K has suggested.

good luck

OZ

OM35 2004
OM18GE 2005

If you're approaching that milestone birthday I'd go for "My Ultimate Martin" right out of the gate. (And yes, you can own one guitar and be perfectly happy.)

Good luck with the search! The quest can be half the fun.

Greetings Brewer! I'm kind of a "monoguitious" player myself, so I totally understand. Once I acquired the D-18GE that I finally play now I realized it is possible to have a single Martin guitar and enjoy that "full" feeling, through and through. Whatever model you ultimately decide to buy might be all you'll ever want or need....It's possible! ....as long as you take your time and play several of the Martin models before finally dropping your coins on the counter. (Incidentally, I started out with Rosewood before realizing I was actually a Hog lover!) The eyes and the ears aren't always on the same page of music.

Like the others have mentioned, I'd shy completely away from the idea of transfering any "factory" electronics to another guitar. The aftermarket pickups that are available today, that also don't involve cutting or drilling holes in the side of your guitar...are, in most cases, better than what the factory initially installed a few years earlier - when guitar "X" was brand new, for example. I know a few people who purchased guitars with factory installed electronics, only to disconnect them, sometime later, and install an aftermarket pickup (or two) of some type that they liked even better. Now they wish the useless knobs from the old (outdated) electronics weren't sticking out of the sides of their favorite guitar.

I think your purchase of a DC-16GTE is a very good plan for now, while you decide whether the cut-away option is something you'll really be needing in your music. If you find that it appeals to you musically, and visually - and later you still wish to own that "famous" D-28 guitar ...at least you'll know for sure. When it comes to buying a guitar, the KNOWING part is one of the things we struggle with the most around here.

It'd be ideal if you could find yourself a nice, used DC-16GTE out there someplace (for a huge savings in cost)... or even a used DC-16GT and then install the aftermarket electronics of your choice. Then...if or when you decided to trade it for something different, you'd not really be out much. I'm betting the D-28 bug will be biting you anyway, and regardless, before all is said and done. Good luck to you!

I may have missed it, but what kind of "style" do you play in? Fingerpick at all? Flatpick bluegrass style? Flatpick rock style?

It's not necessarily important, but you know, when we're all playing around with ideas, it's fun to know so we can be like, "Well for your style, why not buy a __such and such__?"

And if you can stand up to all our recommendations and whatnots and still want a D-28, then you'll really know it's the one for you. Pretty tough to go wrong with a D-28 at any rate. Even if you're going to lightly fingerpick the thing or something, they're still a darn cool guitar (even if they're not ideal for light fingerpicking ).

Thanks for the friendly feedback guys! I was half expecting a flaming...

Regarding my playing style, I generally fingerpick at home but strum around the campfire. I play just about anything, Pink Floyd, Bob Dylan, Neil Young, John Denver, Bob Marley, Don McLean, Ralph McTell, Iron Maiden, you name it. Mostly it's just me entertaining myself.

I think I fell in love with Martin dreads as a small child watching kiddy TV singalong programs. I remember noticing that guitars came in all shapes and sizes but the nicest sounding ones always had this particular plain, classic appearance (teardrop pickguard, gently tapered headstock - you know the kind of thing). When I moved to Australia and went on my first serious guitar hunt I neglected Martins and spent a year or so looking for a Maton - nice guitars, but they varied a lot and I never found one with that authoritative tone that I like. In contrast, EVERY Martin I picked up (even the HDLs) impressed me. I guess I'm just a Martin groupie, but I've made peace with a lot of things in recent years and that's one of them.

Another is onboard electronics. I don't plug in very often, but it's nice to have the option, and the way I see it it's only ever going to get more likely rather than less. The real bonus for me though is the onboard tuner. I love the idea and would almost cut a hole just for that. As a result I have taken a real shine to the Fishman Prefix Premium Blend - I like the concept, the layout, the sound, and especially the LED tuner. I don't like the LCD screen on the new Rolands, and I worry that future 'improvements' will all involve USB ports and digitised sound images, which does bother me a bit. I just get the feeling that the FPB might well represent something of a high point of onboard, purely analogue electronics. Besides, I'll have a couple of years with the 16 to decide whether I really do like it well enough to install it in something more significant, and I can see where things have headed in the meantime.

If do I decide to transplant the Fishman gear I can always get something else to fill the hole on the 16. No doubt I'll take a hit, but this exercise isn't about finances, it's about building my ultimate guitar.

Well, take what I say with a grain of salt. Again, if what I say doesn't influence you, then that will just let you know all the more that "you like what you like"!

First of all, I will not be the only one to cringe at cutting a hole in a D-28. :P If you really want to, heck, it's your guitar. But oi oi oi! It makes me squeamish. You could just get a headstock tuner and clamp it to your headstock, ya know. Then you wouldn't need to cut a hole in that beautiful rosewood!! There are a lot of less-invasive options. You might even be satisfied with just a nice LR Baggs M1A soundhole pickup. Personally, I would do just about anything to avoid a hole. Again, your guitar, but in 20 years, it'll be 20 year-old electronics on a timeless guitar.

I would feel remiss if I did not write that paragraph, so there it is.

And I almost feel like kind of a jerk for saying this next part. Again, you like what you like, and if you want a D-28, just tell my advice to bugger off. I personally am a fan of other body sizes, as I do about 50% fingerpicking. Pretty heavy fingerpicking, so I might even be okay with a D-28, frankly, and Lord knows many excellent players have fingerpicked the heck out of D-28s. Maybe I'm just subscribed to the "don't fingerpick on a dread!" trend.

But anyway, what I was going to say is, if it's possible, try out a few other Martin body sizes, too. I've found my 00-18V to be awesome for fingerpicking and almost miraculously capable for strumming. It sounds as loud and full as competitor's dreadnoughts (not to name names!). BUT, it is definitely no D-28.

I like the M-size for it's versatility. Fingerpicks as well as anything out there and can growl and strum with the best of them.

But it is not a D-28 either. Nothing is except a D-28.

If you want a D-28, you aren't going to be satisfied unless you have one (and talking about it is making me want one, too, frankly). I just want to make sure you cover all the bases.

I wonder if you might consider starting with, say, an OM in the 16 series, and then eventually getting your D-28 and keeping both? Seems almost a shame to own two dreads, especially if you like to fingerpick some for your own enjoyment.

Anyway. Just my thoughts. May or may not be at all useful. You're on the right track (if only we could keep you from slicing a hole in your D-28! :P ).

Also, I tried for a long time to tell myself Martins were overrated and I didn't like them that much, etc etc etc... I was just kidding myself. So I know what you mean about making peace!

I have one good guitar: a D-28. I fingerpick, flatpick and strum - it's good for everything. I've actually been doing a lot of fingerpicking lately and it's a great guitar for it.

I had it fitted with a K&K western mini (which sounds awesome) for the odd time I want to plug in. It's totally non-intrusive (other than the end-hole reaming) and there's no change in the acoustic tone. It doesn't need a pre-amp.

If you're looking for one guitar to do everything, want a D-28 and need a pickup, I'd suggest this route. Think of what you want to use it for most - there's no real sense in paying for fancy onboard electronics if you play unplugged most of the time. There's no need to get a cutaway if you never go high. Get it for what you use it for most - playing unplugged and loving it.

First of all, I will not be the only one to cringe at cutting a hole in a D-28. :P If you really want to, heck, it's your guitar. But oi oi oi! It makes me squeamish.

Hehehe, the D-28 is the best case. What if it ends up being a 35 or an HD-28V?

You could just get a headstock tuner and clamp it to your headstock, ya know.

Why don't I just do this?

Again, your guitar, but in 20 years, it'll be 20 year-old electronics on a timeless guitar

My gut feeling is that I'll be OK with it. Sure, modern guitars will probably all use bluetooth or some such, but then I'll be 60 years old and need some adolescent roadie to 'log in' for me. There's always been room for vintage electronics in music, in fact it's half the fun. Unless the instruments of the future are mic'd up by pointing a laser at them from the sound desk, some sort of mic and preamp system will always be required. As long as it can be repaired when required, the Fishman system will presumably remain useful.

if it's possible, try out a few other Martin body sizes, too.

That's definitely good advice, and I will. The next 2 years will be kind of a 'cooling off' period where my initial need for a Martin dread will have been sated by the mahogany 16 and I can work out what I really want from my 'ultimate' guitar - neck shape, cutaway, even body style. Right now a dread is the only thing that will do it, but I suppose that could change. I doubt it though...

If you want a D-28, you aren't going to be satisfied unless you have one

yeah, that...

Really appreciate everyone's thoughts though, it's good to test your own wacky ideas against other people's...

For what it's worth, I've been thinking about D-28s all night thanks to this thread. Jeezzzzzz.

As for me, I wouldn't want to cut a hole in any solid-wood Martin, I don't think. That's just me, though. If it doesn't bother you, then I wouldn't really worry about it.

The best thing you can do is play the heck out of every Martin you find (particularly the standards), and at the very least, you'll say, yup, that D-28 is the right one for me! Make sure to keep us updated on what you think of them, too!

Go on, get one, you know you want one

And don't worry about the constant updates, you'll all be sick of me by the time I actually pull the trigger

I tell you what though, shopping for my dream dread is a whole heap o fun. I brushed up on the models last night because I don't think I ever really got to grips with the higher levels (they've always been out of reach).

Forgive my little preach to the choir but I wouldn't mind testing my new understanding against the group...

From what I can tell, the 35's are a separate animal, but the 28's and 40-odds are all essentially the same guitar, just with fancier trim as you go up the numbers. There is presumably some kind of selection process that means the better pieces get built into the better guitars, but essentially the specs are the same. The HD-28 and certain special D-28's get scalloped bracing to improve volume and tone out of the box.

The 35 is a newer design, which came about primarily through a need to make big backs out of small planks. While they were at it, they shaved a fraction off the bracing and made a whole new beast with even more tone and volume. (Then they scalloped the braces to make the HD-35, mostly for a giggle and to prove that you can wake the dead with a single open G chord).

What I'm not so sure about is how much brace material is a good thing to lose. Presumably scalloping 5/16" braces will produce a different effect than just using unscalloped 1/4" braces? Can the difference between the two be quantified? It has been suggested that removing brace material is simply another way of increasing the movement, similar to the 'opening up' you get after years of playing. Does that mean an HD-35 is likely to get really flabby if it is played hard for 20 years? If I'm a gentle player, should I get a guitar with less bracing? Will a D-28 take too long to open up if it's played gently?!

I think I always assumed that the D-35 was somewhere between a 28 and a 42, but it isn't is it?! I don't care for elaborate trimmings so I can 'theoretically' rule out the 40s and my choice is essentially between some sort of 28 and some sort of 35. So I'm curious about the difference between an HD-28 and a D-35 (I'll get round to playing them as soon as I can, this is all theoretical at the moment).

On paper, I like the idea of a D-28 Marquis. Can I cut a hole in it?

Brewer wrote:What I'm not so sure about is how much brace material is a good thing to lose. Presumably scalloping 5/16" braces will produce a different effect than just using unscalloped 1/4" braces? Can the difference between the two be quantified? It has been suggested that removing brace material is simply another way of increasing the movement, similar to the 'opening up' you get after years of playing. Does that mean an HD-35 is likely to get really flabby if it is played hard for 20 years? If I'm a gentle player, should I get a guitar with less bracing? Will a D-28 take too long to open up if it's played gently?!

From my experience in playing a bunch of them, the scalloping creates a more resonant sound that accentuates the bass more than the trebles. The 1/4" bracing, on the other hand, deepens and mellows the sound across the fretboard and creates a more responsive guitar. Combine the two, as in the HD-35, and you get a very deep, resonant, responsive guitar that doesn't need much stimulation to get rocking.

The tradeoff, of course, is the guitar's tonal focus and string separation. Hit a D-28 and you can pick the individual notes out in a chord and you can hit it hard without overdriving the top. An HD-35, on the other hand, sounds like Mrs. Butterworth hugging a pancake when strummed and fingerpicks like its plugged in.

If I were only to play alone, strum or fingerpick and sing alone, I'd seriously consider an HD-35. They're wonderful - and they don't break down over the years. That's a myth. There's 75-year-old D-28s out there that are scalloped and forward shifted and they're doing just fine.

These differences are really subtle though, and change between individual guitars. There's only one way to know this, and it's to play them.

Tony

As David Drucker says, "Nov shmoz ka pop..."
My cure for GAS - my wife asking, "Which one(s) are you selling to get that?"
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Say hello to my little friend...

-Mr. Slots-

Tony, how does the Rare Earth soundhole pickup work with the Aura? Pretty well? Have you tried it out with your M-38? I know they have a few custom images of various M models (George Martin's and David Bromberg's, at least). If it works well, this would really be ideal for me and my 00-18V and custom M. I definitely don't want a hole in the side, and I don't really want to install an UST either.

Anyway.

This has gotten to be a really interesting thread! You're definitely on the right track, Brewer. Just keep in mind that, as was eluded to, while the differences in bracing are definitely quantifiable, it's still super-subjective, and I'm sure you've already found out that "better" isn't necessarily something dictated by how much scalloping is done or how lightly something is braced.

About the only way is to forget all about the bracing and play the heck out of a bunch of different guitars.

Jesse, the Rare Earth works fine with the Aura. There only requirements are:

- you need to download Aura images for your model of guitar (or something close) from among the image files that Fishman specifically designed to work with the Rare Earth pickup, and

- when using the Rare Earth Blender pickup with/through an Aura processor, dial the blend control to be all pickup and no microphone. If you have just the Rare Earth pickup without the microphone, you don't need to do anything with the pickup.

The Aura system converts the sound your pickup produces into what your guitar should sound like if it were played through one of a series of high-end microphones. Fishman takes your guitar model (or something close), records it with an undersaddle pickup and/or Rare Earth humbucking pickup, and from the recorded data maps an image file for those pickup sources. They repeat the process using several different high-end microphones and generate microphone image files for those. The Aura processor converts or translates the pickup signal into what the microphones would've sounded like, and then gives you controls to tailor the degree to which the Aura "effect" is blended in to the pickup sound. If you blend in 100%-Aura, you're pretty much getting high-end microphone sound, but since the source is a soundhole or an undersaddle pickup, there's much less feedback. The Aura processors also feature versatile EQ and a tuner function as well.

Fishman says their image files and processors will work with only their own brand of soundhole pickups, although any brand of undersaddle piezo pickup can be used with the undersaddle-based images. In either case, you don't have to cut any holes in your guitar.

Tony

As David Drucker says, "Nov shmoz ka pop..."
My cure for GAS - my wife asking, "Which one(s) are you selling to get that?"
(Forum intro - page 11)
Say hello to my little friend...

-Mr. Slots-

Yeah, that's fantastic! I've been monitoring them for a while and have been interested in their new Aura Spectrum DI. I want to use it with my Composite Acoustics guitars, particularly my GX, which has a Stage Pro on-board. I was unsure how that would work, and I know they don't have images for that specific guitar (or my GXi, for that matter). They do have a CA Legacy image, but my Legacy has no electronics, and I don't want to put any in. And, I always thought it would be super cool to use with my 00-18V and forthcoming M, but I'd be danged if I was gonna put anything in them.

However, if it works with a Rare Earth, I'll happily buy one for use in my Martins and Legacy! Could probably even use it in my GX, even tho it has a Stage Pro (assuming the Stage Pro doesn't perform well) if they get an image for it.

Does the humbucker Rare Earth work better than the single-coil, or doesn't it matter? I wouldn't want to use it alone, just with the Aura. Also, it apparently picks up regular old acoustic PB or 80/20 strings?

Sorry for hijacking the thread. This is all good news to me. And, on-topic, it just goes to show you don't need to load your guitar up with icky electronics to get a good plugged-in sound, hint hint. I know you want a tuner, Brewer, but...

I have to admit, the Aura sounds fabulous. I had the opportunity to play a DC-28E a while back, and while I'm not exactly a guru with this sort of stuff I do have some pro audio experience and I understand the concept of DSP (digital signal processing). To be honest though, you plug any Martin into any $1000+ box and its probably going to impress me, so the finer nuances of the Aura image would have gone over my head. If I was a pro muso I'd probably go nuts over it, but I think a good analog system is more than enough for my humble needs.

As for playing heaps of guitars, I'm working on it. I'm going to try and get over to my semi-regular drooling place tonight, they usually have a pretty decent selection.

I've also found that there is a D-28MM in Adelaide. Right now (and purely on paper of course) that's probably the guitar I'm most fascinated by. It's 9 hours drive away but a pretty cheap plane fare mid-week - I'm half tempted to take a day off work and fly over just for the hell of playing it, but it does seem a little extreme. Plus I'll be in a heap of trouble if I fall in love with it.

Not sure even I could cut a hole in that one though...